Mastering the Art of Saying No As a Business Owner with Brian Butkowski

Welcome to Struggles: Navigating Challenges, Together, the ultimate podcast for entrepreneurs across all industries who are grappling with the many facets of running and scaling a business. Whether you're a startup founder or a seasoned business owner, you're not alone in your journey. Join hosts Chris Inman and this week's guest, Brian Butkoski, as they delve into the most pressing issues entrepreneurs face daily. Through real-world stories, expert insights, and practical solutions, we provide you with the tools and inspiration to overcome your business struggles.

This week we focus on the critical skill of saying no and why it's essential for both personal and business success. They explore the pitfalls of constantly saying yes, from sacrificing personal and business efficiency to taking on projects that fall outside one's expertise. The discussion underscores the importance of setting boundaries, selectively taking on work, and recognizing when a project's fit and terms aren't mutually beneficial. Through personal anecdotes and insights, they emphasize how saying no can ultimately lead to better client relationships, enhanced productivity, and greater business success. The episode encourages listeners to embrace the power of no for improved work-life balance and professional growth. Special guest Brian Butkowski opens up about his experiences and offers strategies to help you prioritize your time and energy effectively.

Time Stamps:

• Introduction
• [00:00]
• Balancing Client Requests Without Losing Focus
• [00:00:02]
• Navigating Unexpected Meetings and Deadlines
• [00:00:30]
• Importance of Saying No
• [00:01:04]
• Personal Stories of Saying Yes Too Often
• [00:01:55]
• Pitfalls of Engaging in Free Work
• [00:02:42]
• The Email Distraction Dilemma
• [00:03:18]
• Multitasking vs. Focused Work
• [00:04:24]
• Do Not Disturb Strategy
• [00:05:07]
• Setting Expectations with Clients
• [00:05:39]
• Saying No for Business Interests
• [00:05:46]
• Knowing When to Refer Clients
• [00:06:46]
• Communicating Transparency with Clients
• [00:08:15]
• Dealing with Non-Fit Clients
• [00:09:47]
• Pricing Strategy for Difficult Clients
• [00:10:54]
• Conclusion and Final Insights
• [00:11:57]

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Transcript

0:02

Too many times I drop everything just to help somebody. I'm looking at my email, I'm distracted. Oh, I need this thing. Well, I'm in the middle of something else, whatever that might be. I drop everything and do that. Was that really best use of my time? Did it shift my gears too much? Did it hold me up? Was it something that needed to be done? Yes, but maybe there were different terms or a different time frame that that could be. And I was just having some recent conversations with people that, you know, they have that problem too. Especially like if you're in a work environment and you get pulled into a meeting out of nowhere. Well, you had a couple of items. You had to get out the door by the end of the day, but all of a sudden, it's the end of the day because you got pulled into this meeting. Sometimes you have to, even though it might be hard to do and difficult, say, hey, no, no, not right now. Or, let me get this thing done first. Then I'll give you this other time. Welcome to another episode of Struggles, presented by ncbi, the podcast where we navigate challenges together. And welcome to another episode of Struggles, presented by ncbi. And I'm Chris Simmond with Idea Cleveland. I'm Brian Bukowski with Bomb Image. All right, so today we're going to talk about, you know, sometimes as business owners, it's hard to say no to things, right? It's hard to say no to things. When a client asks you to do something, you're like, oh, is that really what I want to do? Is that. Do I even have the ability to do it? I know people that have said yes to things and is completely blown up on them because that wasn't their expertise. They didn't want to say no to a client. People say yes to doing things for free, and they should have said no. And most people say yes because they think, oh, it's going to lead to more work. Most likely, free work never leads to paid work. Let's be honest. It doesn't always. No. No. So, Brad, why don't you just talk about some of the experiences you've had not to be whatever. But I have done it. You've done it. We've said yes too many times in life, right? Well, when we're trying to win and we're trying to be a giver, makes it really easy just to say yes to almost everything that you're trying to do. When somebody asks you a question, somebody needs help with something, it's very easy. I'm a people pleaser. So one of the things that I've been trying to study and learn over the course of my life, but even my business life and being a solopreneur, understanding that, yeah, you want to help people, but there are times to save yourself, you have to say no or, no, not right now, or not easy to do. And as I've told many people that I've had conversation with as a business owner, the other part is it can be really lonely. It can be lonely to say no. It can be lonely to say yes. And even going back one step further to where you said doing free work for people doesn't necessarily lead to paid work. Yes. I think the one critical part on that is if you can do it on your terms, when people say, hey, I'll do this, have you do this thing for me, I'll give you exposure, I'll do this, that's on their terms. If you know what you're doing and you're trying to be appropriate and smart, that's good. I would say no to spec work. Spec work usually would never lead to more work. Somehow, some way. And that's the trouble here. But, yeah, navigating the. The timeframes and understanding what needs to be done is really difficult for me. And I think that's something that, as I look at things and I try to track what I do, it helps a little bit. Yeah. And you mentioned one thing, like, we all do this. The email chime goes off. Oh, what happened? You look over, oh, it's a client, and he has a request. And you physically were in the middle of working on another client's project. This client now has an emergency. And there's that old saying, lack of preparation on your part doesn't negate an emergency on my part or something like that. Forget what the quote is. But yet you feel that way because they're your client. Right. They're how you feed your kids. It's how you pay your bills, because that's how we are as small business owners. So you don't want to just be like, oh, okay, whatever. I'll get you what I can. They're over here panicking about this thing. You got this other project that has a deadline, and now you're cut between the two. And what happens is the person that speaks the loudest and the quickest right there, that email is what distracts you. And then by the time you get back to that other client's work, it takes you another 10 minutes to get back into it. Right. You can't. In the creative processes. You can't just pick up and drop. It's not like making widgets correct. And I will say the idea of multitasking, I've heard a variety of opinions on how it works or doesn't work. In all honesty, if you want to do your best work, you can't multitask. It's not possible. You need to concentrate on one thing at a time. And one way that I've tried to overcome that struggle is I'll do a little bit more the do not disturb. I'll just put down, hey, if I'm doing this thing and try and block out timeframes, that can help me to make sure that I don't get interrupted by, you know what might be a panic for somebody. Probably probably wasn't a panic anyway, even if it's not you, but people have to know that. And again, once you start giving and people expect timeframes coming back to them with communication and things, they start expecting even more and more. We've had conversations about that before in the past and yeah, it's great to help people, but we have to make sure we do it on the proper terms. And that could be the proper terms for not only us, but also for the client and not leading to other expectations or leading to further panic mode issues and getting these emails or calls. And really, again, setting up that expectation of how things are supposed to work and making sure that they get what they need appropriately. But again, yourself, your clients, your family, who you are feeding, but make sure that they get what they need too, and all those expectations are met properly. And the other thing I think we should talk about is the saying no because it's in your best interest as a business as well. Sure. Someone asked me to make, let's use something as an example, a capital campaign video for nonprofit Could I physically do it? Yes. Would it be okay? Sure. I haven't done one of those in many, many, many, many years. Right. Would I be the best at it? Hell no. Would it be in my best interest to say yes? Some people would say, oh, they have$20,000 to do this video. Why would you say no? But as my business states, saying no is actually beneficial to me because that is going to draw all my energy, all my attention away from the clients that I want to work with to do this one project for the cash, which I'm not even going to be great at. I'd be better off referring somebody that's really good at that and saying, hey, you should work with XYZ for that project. And it actually is beneficial to me. Beneficial to you and to the client, 100%. And that's one where I think you're hitting it right on the head. Now, different companies do different things. And again, depending on how you're dealing with that client, even if it's a referral, they may still need to pay you and you outsource that. But to your point, if you're not concentrating on the things that you do best, you're probably not going to do your best work for you, for them. Best use of that money, the most efficient use for everything and everybody's time and efforts. I appreciate that greatly. And that's one of the things that I like to say is as I try to purport my business, I try to help clients, to figure out and attract the clients and customers for them that are the most profitable and the most rewarding. Those are the ones you're going to do your best work with. Again, it's probably something you're going to do every day or more that you want to do of more projects and customers that you want to deal with. And your best work is going to come out and obviously they're going to see it as well, the client, the customer, they're going to actually feel that benefit. So to your point, spinning wheels sometimes is a bad thing. Now, there's not always something wrong with saying, hey, yes, I'll take care of this, but you have to figure out the best ways to make that happen. Again, if that's a referral, if it's an outsourced thing, or again, being very transparent and blatant with your client, hey, I'm not going to perform this myself as my company. Would you like me to handle this for you as I get one of my experts to be brought in? That's how I do a lot with Bomb image in specific cases. But be transparent. And if you're going to add value and they want you to take care of it, awesome. If not, you can just pass that referral, just like you said, and it makes it so much better for everybody. And in a way, you're not saying no. It's more like not right now or on my terms or on the best terms for everybody. Yeah. And I think this one is probably the hardest one for people to really dig into, and that's saying no, because I don't want to work with you. Sure. I've had some referrals given to me in the last year that I met the person I was like. I, I don't think they're going to be a good client for me. I don't gel well with them. I don't know if this is really going to work out. Now my accountant side of the business goes, why would you not take every job again? But in my world, working one on one with people and having this great communication is so important. Yes. And I am not a perfectionist. That's not who I am. I will misspell a word or two occasionally I'll miss it in graphics or I'll watch a 60 second video and I'll see that vetaprinting is spelled V E T T A by the AI. That helps me with the captions. And I'll miss it every once in a while. But I send that over to Phil. Phil goes, hey, it's misspelled again. Okay, now the more times. But there's certain people like oh my gosh, I would turn into a whole, whole discussion, whole thing. But if you have a relationship with your client already, that makes when you do screw up so much smoother. Sure. Because we're never going to be perfect in life. Nobody's perfect. No. A lot of us strive for it. Maybe others more than other people. Again, maybe to a detriment too. But the idea. So going back to the like, sometimes you just don't want to work with people and that's why you want to say no. Well, yeah. And I would say fit is everything. I say that to my clients that work with me. They have to be a fit. There has to be a great fit, a good communication style, great understanding and again, expectations. Expectations is a big thing. But yeah, you have to make sure there's a fit. And maybe the way to say no is hey, hey, so and so there's not a fit here. And again, maybe you can give a referral. Maybe you're better off going this direction or I can try to help you or hey, that's not a fit for my organization at this time. On your terms and you don't have to say no or hey, I don't think we're going to work well together. But to your point, you can't afford to have that wrong client suck your time away when you could be doing good work for other clients and vice versa. I think the other one that I'll also when I usually give advice to people that are not sure about a fit. Okay, price that. So it is a fit. Your accountant side can come out and say, yeah, normally this is this amount of money. And again, you may not always have that opportunity with your company. But. But in mine, a lot of my work is project based and I will create a proposal for a particular project. Well, for this client, it might have to be more because I know there's going to be more hand holding or I'm concerned about more hand holding and if they're okay to pay that price, then maybe there is a fit. Yeah. Then you're more happy. Correct. You don't have to worry those pains go away. Correct. Because you're paying the hours of pain that you're going through. Correct. And some to your point, some are not ever a fit at any cost. Correct. And it's okay to say no to those people. Correct. Because the ones that suck the energy out of you. Absolutely. Only hurt your good clients because you're spending all your effort and energy on something that you don't have a lot of enjoyment in. And now the clients that you do have good relationships, those are the ones that you hurt. Correct. And the idea that I think about too, with that is sometimes passing up a client could allow you to spend more, better time finding other, better clients that are more of a fit for you and your organization. Absolutely. Well, this has been an awesome conversation and hopefully you guys got something out of this and started thinking about like, hey, maybe it's okay for me to say no a little bit more often. We all have to work on it, Right? We all have to work on it. And there is growth by saying no. Absolutely. So hopefully this conversation kind of helped you guys out and catch you on the next podcast. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Struggles presented by NCBI where we navigate challenges together. Don't forget to subscribe, listen and share this podcast with others who might benefit. We'd love to hear about the struggles you're facing or have overcome, and we'd be thrilled to have you as a guest on a future episode. Let's continue this journey together.